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Bill Moyers on: The Rove Legacy

Bill Moyers/PBS - approx 4:00 - broadcast on Friday, August 17, 2007.

Update: Naturally the discussion of Rove's departure is on-going. Rove was a force in American politics -- "the force" from 2000 to 2006 by many accounts, and his departure is creating opportunities for thoughtful reflection by many on the left.

Among the more recent (and plainly oustpoken) pundits weighing in, in addition to Bill Moyers above, is Cenk Uygu, one of the co-hosts of the Young Turks national radio show. Uygu, in the following commentary which first appeared on the Huffington Post, remarks on Rove's departure in progressive terms:

Rove was always so optimistic about elections, including 2006. Part of the reason for this was because he knew the fix was in. He knew that his minions had worked hard to cage voters, to give less voting machines to heavily Democratic districts, contested minority voters and done every little dirty trick in the book. And to be fair, they also worked hard to turn out their Christian army of voters. The kind who don't question their candidates and vote like robots for anyone their pre-paid preacher tells them to.

So, Rove figured that Republicans would win any close election. But what he didn't figure on is non-close elections. And that if you drive hard enough toward your base, then you won't have any more close elections. He thought there would be no price to pay for appealing only to the most conservative, narrow-minded, theocratic, xenophobic and militaristic people in the country. He was wrong.

Thanks to Rove the Republicans have lost the middle. And they have lost it for a long time to come. This will do untold damage to the Republican Party. So, there is great irony that the man Democrats loved to hate will come to be known as the scourge of the Republican Party.

But Rove didn't just break the Republican Party. Rove also leaves behind a broken president, a broken army, a slew of broken laws and a broke country. He spent heavily in districts and programs that he thought would help Republicans. He spent up the good will of the US abroad and Republicans at home. He's like the unscrupulous captain of a sinking ship getting off the boat before it goes under and takes everyone else down with it.

The comment thread of this post contains perfect examples of the kind of Rove-World Karl created, and that is now failing the Republican Party so miserably, as several conservative commenters from our right wing sister site Wizbang launched an attack on Bill Moyers' credentials rather than address the topic of Rove's legacy. Perhaps even these conservatives now recognize that Rove's strategies are to a large degree indefensible in light of his recent failures...

In Republican circles you're only as good as your last stolen election.

"Good riddance," as John Edwards put it upon hearing of Rove's departure, and good riddance is the correct answer to the right's lie-encrusted drum majorette of hate.


Note: Wizbang Blue is now closed and our authors have moved on. Paul Hooson can now be found at Wizbang Pop!. Please come see him there!

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Comments (23)

Lee
Want to know what Moyers is really pissed about? Nobody listens to him anymore. He had a nice ride on PBS until around 1990, at which time the competition got fierce.
What does it say about Moyers that he can't even land the liberal seat on Fox? Or be invited to join the club at CNN? Because nobody listens to him.

Given that Rove famously ignores all of the media (except Fox and Rush Limbaugh) do you seriously believe he pays any attention to Moyers? Even Moyers' fellow travelers ignore him.

But Moyers certainly outdid even his own unctuous self when he accused Bush and Rove of using church "pews as precincts", couching that outrageously hypocritical comment in language using "God's anointing". That's absolutely priceless. Someone call Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton!!!!

Why is Moyers like a tree falling in the forest? Because both have long had the same audience....nobody.

Lee ward:

Bill Moyers is well-respected journalist - and therefore wouldn't be caught dead on Fox News. I also suspect that his audience on PBS is larger than a comparable show on Fox News.

You can also tell he's effective and well-respected by the way right wing blogs attack him.

Moyers is, as usual spot on in his analysis of Rove Bush in this video clip. The fact that Moyers analysis is just another nail in the coffin of the GOP vis a vis the 2008 election is bound to make the simple-minded Faux Dogs get up and bark...

Present company excepted of course, Hugh...

marc:

I also suspect that his audience on PBS is larger than a comparable show on Fox News.

Ok, I'll bite.

What Fox show would you call comparable?

(QUICK run to the TV ratings blog and get the lowest Fox show to paste up!- Lee thinks to himself)

"Bill Moyers is well-respected journalist - and therefore wouldn't be caught dead on Fox News."

Someone should go tell Mara Liasson that Lee shite on her doorstep. And I suppose Alan Combs should write Lee a personal apology.

Baggi:

I love this line:

"You can also tell he's effective and well-respected by the way right wing blogs attack him."

Wow, let's apply that logic, shall we?

That means Jimmy Carter is "effective" and "well-respected" too. So is Edward Kennedy. Shoot, even Ahmadinejad must be "effective" and "well-respected" because he gets attacked on right wing blogs also.

Hmmm, maybe effective and respected don't mean what they used to.

BTW Lee
I'm in with marc....produce the numbers.

Lee Ward:

18 million viewers -- Moyers: "On Death and Dying" - link.

Can you show me a Fox News Channel Special like "On Death and Dying" that aired on Fox News and that got 18 million viewers?

I dont' watch the Faux News bullshit channel, so I'm not aware of any programming like Moyers that pulls an audience like Moyers.' Are you?


Oh, my bad. You limited it to Fox News Channel. Clever. Let's strip away Barney, Sesame Street, and other government subsidized products. Typical Lee smoke and mirrors.

Just a thought Lee, where would PBS be in a Cable format? Where is Moyers on Cable,for that matter?

bryanD:

Sure, Moyers was LBJ's gopher at one time, but he eschews the crapulence now that he has his own brand. And if he has a chip on his shoulder, so much the better to name names in the public interest. The Watchdog as opposed to Lapdog role.

Ulterior motivation? Who cares. Truth will out.

As for Hugh's "1990" expiration date on Moyers, this tour de force documentary was featured just this year:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/btw/watch.html

It roasts the beltway media in ways cable won't do (for obvious reasons). Blows 'em up real good!

It's free. In high quality. 2 thumbs Way Up!


Baggi:

I have to agree with Hugh. Moyers who?

18 million views in a month for a special that lasted six hours means at best he got 3 million views an hour on average. But the month thing is very clever. My guess is that they ran that episode several times in the month and it probably breaks down to less than a million viewers per hour.

Is the year 2000 the best you can do, and a special, over the course of a month? Really?

"I dont' watch the Faux News bullshit channel, so I'm not aware of any programming like Moyers that pulls an audience like Moyers.' Are you?"

Well, if you're asking are there any shows that have a guy like Moyers on their show, no, they don't even have such a show. If you're asking about opinion shows, they have plenty, and those shows, even the lowest rated ones, get ten times the ratings that moyers gets.

But good for Moyers to be able to have a special and get a few people back in the year 2000 to watch it.

Maybe if he wants people to listen to him today he ought to try out another special. No ones watching or cares otherwise.

Lee Ward:

Moyers specials pull higher ratings than the other PBS New efforts, and I think he comes close to doing as well (if not better) as the Frontline news specials on PBS.

How that compares to Fox News Specials I don't know... I just know that on PBS, Moyers exceeds the usual ratings over there.

JOE MILLIONAIRE! Hugh, are you kidding? We're talking JOURNALISM, not pulp, and we're talking FOX NEWS not Fox Network.

Hmm, if he has ears like a mule, and walks like a mule, and brays like a mule...

"Can you show me a Fox News Channel Special like "On Death and Dying" that aired on Fox News and that got 18 million viewers?"

YOU brought up audience size, Lee, not me. Don't fall back on content as an excuse. You want PULP? Kiss the Purple Dinosaur! Tell Elmo to dance! And tell both of them to GIVE BACK the federal subsidy that need to exist.

Lee Ward:

Fact-checking IS NOT your friend, Hugh.

HughS: "YOU brought up audience size, Lee, not me. Don't fall back on content as an excuse."

It was about content from the start, Hugh.

Lee: "I also suspect that his audience on PBS is larger than a comparable show on Fox News."

And you pull JOE MILLIONAIRE out of your ass and wave it around like you just shit shit a golden egg. lol *wink

kim:

What is this? Speak no evil, see no evil, smell no evil?
=================================

FMK:

"Moyers specials pull higher ratings than the other PBS New efforts, and I think he comes close to doing as well (if not better) as the Frontline news specials on PBS.

How that compares to Fox News Specials I don't know... I just know that on PBS, Moyers exceeds the usual ratings over there."

I seriously doubt any of that is true.

I am also not the one advancing the Bill Moyers ratings juggernaut theory.

I'm sure Lee can and will provide facts and figures to back up his pipe dreams.

Lee Ward:

You Conservatives and your pipe fetishes... and you Log Cabin boys are the absolute worst.

Fox News. Nothing but Attack Hounds - just like HughS, FMK, Marc...

The speaker in the post above was Bill Moyers, but the subject of the post was Karl Rove. Since Karl Rove is indefensible the Conservative Crusaders! attack Moyers.

We defeated Karl Rove and took the House and Senate in 2006.

We'll take the White House in 2008.

Fact Check that, HughS.

Lee Ward:

"What is this? Speak no evil, see no evil, smell no evil?
================================="

I'll never eat another fortune cookie for the rest of my life, and I used to really like fortune cookies...

marc:

Lee:

18 million viewers -- Moyers: "On Death and Dying" - link.

Yeah right... and we're to believe you meant Moyers "specials" or documentaries and not his regular weekly/daily show.

Nice try

Larkin
On #1, I think Rove believed he could bend some Democrats and pull it off. Obviously he was wrong. But this initiative should be ranked #3

Point #2....Surprise!, I agree with you. It was the biggest legislative failure of the Bush Presidency.

The "most important domestic policy initiative(s) of the Bush presidency" was his tax cuts.

For the Record, Rove won in 2000.

What I found distressing was the highly partisan and divisive attitude nature of Karl Rove on yesterday's Sunday talk shows like MEET THE PRESS and FOX NEWS SUNDAY. This highly partisan and negative attitude by Rove is simply appalling. That much self-righteousness and pure partisanship at any cost is not a worthy element for American politics. Rove has clearly forgotten how to be a gentleman or exhibit good manners.

Paul
You should read Stephen Haye's book "Cheney".

The level of animosity between Cheney/Rove and the MSM is deep.

You probably know my side, but read the book. It will inform you about several things that I always questioned the Administration about: Why didn't Bush and Cheney communicate their side of the debate more effectively? Why doesn't Cheney engage the MSM?

You may not come away agreeing with them, but it will give you insight into Cheney's thinking and it will certainly give you a new take on the Plame/Libby fiasco.


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Publisher: Kevin Aylward

Editors: Lee Ward, Larkin, Paul S Hooson, and Steve Crickmore

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